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Topic: Discussion of Wiimmfi for City Folk

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tennisfan21
 
Name
Alex
ACCF Town
Last Active
10:38am
A little backstory before I get into the suggestion: I've been a member here for nearly 6 years, and have played Animal Crossing City Folk since the day it came out. It instantly became my favorite game in the series and I still play today, though not as often as in the past. Like countless others, I was crushed by Nintendo's announcement of the Wifi shutdown. About a year and a half ago, I discovered the replacement server called Wiimmfi*. I'm now back online and joined a group chat that has over 150 members. But lately, that has become fairly inactive, so I returned here.

As I browsed the ACCF Board, I saw many threads posted by people who have returned to the game and this site, only to find out about the shutdown. Currently, the only way to access this server is to hack the Wii. I have read the rules and understand the rules that pertain to posting about hacking. However, I feel it is a disservice that many players are unaware of this replacement server, and with the current rules, it is difficult to get the word out and help players get connected.

I propose a possible solution, but I'm open to any and all ideas and feedback.

Modify the rules to allow the discussion of hacking for the sole purpose of getting players connected to the server. No discussion of cheating or any other actions that could compromise the integrity of this site. This could be done in either a separate Wiimmfi section, the current ACCF section, or, at the very least, left to PTs.

I believe this solution will benefit both the players of City Folk and this community as a whole. It will open up ACC to all the players currently on Wiimmfi and bring in new ones from this community. As of 10:30PM on July 6th, there are 2,456 City Folk profiles on Wiimmfi that have logged in a total of 44,970 times**. By allowing the discussion of Wiimmfi, ACC will have the opportunity to receive additional website visits and page views. At the same time, current members here will have the opportunity to once again enjoy City Folk online and meet new players.

I hope you all will thoughtfully consider my suggestion. It's just saddening to me to see so many returning players that do not know how to get back online. Thank you.


* I am assuming that the staff is already aware of and knows about Wiimmfi, but I am happy to elaborate on it further if need be.
** I can provide a link to the in-depth Wiimmfi stats page if any of the staff would like to view it.
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Dilpyckle
 
Last Active
3/7 3:40pm
I'm sorry, Alex, but I have to disagree with this.

Note: As a disclaimer, the following is not legal advice as I'm not a lawyer:

Modifying one's Wii is violating Nintendo's Acceptable Usage Policy, so some people may be mislead into thinking it's okay by allowing it on the site. If you mod your Wii, it voids your warranty (and, in some cases, is illegal).

Also, if someone does get Homebrew to use Wiimfi, it could lead them to downloading games (which are normally paid) for free, and that is illegal.
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tennisfan21
 
Name
Alex
ACCF Town
Last Active
10:38am
I figured there would be some pushback regarding the legalities of Wiimmfi, so I did some research.

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap12.html

This policy makes the use of Wiimmfi legal, so long as the real servers are shut down, which they are. Nintendo could get upset about it, but they don't have the legal authority to do anything about it. So the server itself is not illegal.

I am not a lawyer either, so I asked an intellectual property law attorney for his take. He said in part: "No, it is not illegal to softmod your Wii. It is your console and you can paint it black, remove parts, add parts, etc. But how you use the modified Wii could get you into serious trouble. To copy any games (downloading torrents, etc) from friends or websites not licensed by Wii... Will get you into trouble"

So, having the hacked Wii in itself is not illegal. Using Wiimmfi is not illegal. It's possible to do all this without running afoul of any laws.

I totally agree that no one should illegally download games, and I am not advocating for anything of that sort to be allowed here. However, what people do with their Wii after they hack it to gain access to Wiimmfi is their business. Our discussion would be strictly limited to Wiimmfi.
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Dilpyckle
 
Last Active
3/7 3:40pm
Wait, so basically if I mod my Wii just for Wiimfi, and don't download any games through Homebrew, that's allowed?

(Wow, I may even do this if it's okay)
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tennisfan21
 
Name
Alex
ACCF Town
Last Active
10:38am
That's my understanding of it based on the information I found. As long as you don't use the hacked Wii to download paid games for free, then it's perfectly fine.
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Clutz450
 
Name
removed per member's request
ACCF Town
Last Active
11/1/2018 3:53pm
Wow Alex.  Thank you for posting this.  It was very well written.  And I like how you did your research about the legalities of hacking your Wii.

I had tried to do something similar about a year or two ago with getting the admin here to make an exception to hacking for the sole purposes of connecting to Wiimmfi.  But unfortunately it seems like at that time they were sticking to their guns of all hacking is against the rules.  I totally understand their stance though.  I'm sure they are worried that a topic like that would spark questions about how to pirate and cheat.  However, this site is full of members dedicated to the enjoyment of playing Animal Crossing.  So anyone who comes to this site looking to play I would almost guarantee already owns a copy of the game and just wants to find a way to play online again with other players who also share their love for the game.  And if hacking really is the issue here there actually exists a way to get online without hacking.  It requires the use of an exploit and your original copy of Animal Crossing City Folk.  So no hacking is to be done and no piracy either since you have to have the actual game.  So maybe this is the avenue we should pursue if we want to be able to talk about Wiimmfi here.

Also, I am the one who started the Animal Crossing GroupMe chat and the Facebook page trying to get the word out about Wiimmfi and helping them to connect back online.  None of our talks in either place are about pirating or cheating.  We are just a group of people trying to spread the word and to find more people to play with.  However we have just been randomly reaching out to various other sites and forums hoping people would read them with very little luck.  If we were able to talk about Wiimmfi here, I would totally tell everyone in my Facebook and GroupMe groups to start using this site instead.  I feel that this site is much better to organize online activities on then any other site or app I have used.
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yankees24cano
 
Name
Cano
ACNL Town
Last Active
12:21pm
Disclaimer: I have no legal background and I'm not a mod, so none of my response should be interpreted as coming from either of those groups.

Legality aside, we have an unofficial partnership with Nintendo.  We use many of their copyrighted images on this site.  While we haven't communicated with them about this (as far as I know), we understand that the reason they allow us to do so is because we provide free publicity for their game, which in turn gives them more sales.  They could decide to issue us a cease and desist letter, which would force us to significantly change the site.  Would this change lead to that?  Probably not, but we don't know for sure.  It's probably better to not make them mad.

The other issue is that we don't know what hacking your console does to your console.  Theoretically, hacking your console in any way could break your wii and invalidate your warranty.  Even though ACC would likely have no legal responsibility, we don't want that to happen to any of our users.  Imagine a 13-year-old kid telling his parent that his console is broken because of instructions he followed on ACC.

Those are the 2 big things holding this back.  I'd love to see it, but I think those problems are hard to work around.  I'd be interested to hear jader or any modmin respond though.
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Clutz450
 
Name
removed per member's request
ACCF Town
Last Active
11/1/2018 3:53pm
I don't know about the whole displaying copyrighted images thing.  Without knowing the law I'm not going to try and comment one way or another on that.  But the hacking issue I will comment on.  Hacking your Wii does come with risks.  But so many people have hacked their Wiis over the years and better ways to do things have been found that the process is almost noob proof.  There are safety features that can be installed into the Wii where even if something does go wrong and the Wii becomes unusable there will always be a way to recover.  Plus if someone wants to go the exploit route like I talked in my last post then no hacking is taking place.  The Wii stays unhacked therefore nothing can get broken.

I personally have helped countless people hack their Wiis and get back online.  I take great pride in ensuring that the person I am helping feels confident in what they are doing.  I have even live video chatted with at least 3 people so that way I could be with them every step of the way.   And if talking about Wiimmfi gets allowed here I would totally continue to help people the same way.

Overall, times are changing and the rules should evolve with the change of the times.  Nintendo is no longer making Wiis.  Nintendo no longer has am online service for the Wii.  The Animal Crossing City Folk game is no longer being produced.  In each of those examples, Nintendo is no longer making money.  So just as you said how Nintendo is allowing us to use their copyrighted images on this site I feel like they shouldn't care if we hack our consoles to play online because they are not losing any money from our actions.  If anything, they wound be losing money if they kept their official servers online since they would have to pay to keep them online.  If anything, we are helping Nintendo to save money by creating our own servers where people can enjoy playing their Wii games and it doesn't cost Nintendo a dime.
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tennisfan21
 
Name
Alex
ACCF Town
Last Active
10:38am
I wasn't aware of the partnership with Nintendo, so thank you Cano for bringing that up. Being that City Folk has been out since 2008, I'd be surprised if Nintendo reacted since they're probably focusing on the newer games and consoles that will have a more significant impact on their sales. But it's definitely something to consider, and I would also like to hear what a mod or admin has to say about the partnership.

Jason made some good points, and I'll add on to that a little bit. As for breaking, or bricking, the Wii, there are numerous safeguards that can be put in place to prevent this. I have two safety measures in place so that, in the highly unlikely event that I brick my Wii, I can fix it and not lose anything. But as Jason pointed out above, there's a way to get online that doesn't involve hacking, so the possibility of bricking your Wii may not even be an issue.
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GrizzlyAdam
 
Name
Adam
ACCF Town
Last Active
9/11/2016 11:57am
We have two Wiis in the house and no desire to upgrade systems. We never got around to playing Animal Crossing until this summer and were very disapointed to learn that WFC was shutdown. After looking into it I found out that there was a workaround and after making all the accomidations I joined this site to exchange friend codes with people here. But now that I am here its all hush-hush because its no longer officially supported and everyone is afraid of stepping on toes. It is very frustrating for me and my family as new players-- we just want to play!

My suggestion is to just allow us to publicly share friend code like people on the other games. We can keep how we actually connect to private messages if you guys aren't comfortable talking about that through the public channels. But let us out of our closets! We have done nothing wrong, we just made our game work again.
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Tokiyami
 
Name
neal
ACCF Town
Last Active
7/8/2016 4:13pm
hey alex this is my ACC acount (groupme Natsu dragneel) i agree with alex because we barely have anyone using wiimmfi and to bring everyone who has a wii and AC together again
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Tokiyami
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ltfuller27
 
Name
Luke
ACCF Town
Last Active
7/8/2016 8:03pm
If it is of any help at all, I am also a member of the previously mentioned GroupMe chat, and it would be a wonderful help to our small community if we could work something out with the ACC community.

Since we really don't have any leverage here, I think we can be as accommodating as possible with regards to disclaimers, specific language in our posts, etc., so as not to disrupt the ACC relationship with Nintendo.

I would really like to thank ACC for at least starting this dialogue, rather than dismiss it completely. I hope we can continue working this out!
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zanemc
 
Name
Zane
ACNL Town
Last Active
1:53am
i think we should be able to, maybe as long as we dont upload links or tutorials on how to hack your wii they should let us, like if you want to hack your wii since ACC doenst condemned hacking you have to find it yourself so ACC has nothing to do with the hacking process and cant be blamed if someone bricked their wii
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tennisfan21
 
Name
Alex
ACCF Town
Last Active
10:38am
Thank you all for your comments. Some good points were brought up. Luke highlighted something important: we don't want to disrupt ACC's partnership with Nintendo. I don't know any of the specifics of this partnership so I won't try to comment yet on what is the best way to accommodate it. I'd be very interested to hear from a staff member who has knowledge on this partnership.
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GrizzlyAdam
 
Name
Adam
ACCF Town
Last Active
9/11/2016 11:57am
Still looking for input on this...
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Liv909
 
Name
Liv
ACNL Town
Last Active
1:44am
I would be interested in seeing a mod response as well, since I am not one. (disclaimer)

I think your intentions are good, I really do. I personally never heard of Wiimmfi but the whole concept itself is interesting and I think it's good to see the AC community still find ways to get together after the Nintendo server shutdown. However, unfortunately at the end of the day, this is an unauthorized solution. I would like to cite Rule 2.8 here.

"2.8 Hacking Device/Software Codes - 12/29/2009
We do not allow members to post any hacking device/program codes or links to sites that offer codes anywhere on ACC. Any code or link to codes will be deleted. Furthermore, do not explain how to use these software devices or link to sites that do this. Examples of these devices/programs include but are not limited to Action Replay, Gameshark and Homebrew."
This is a very tightly written rule but it is this way for a reason. Besides the delicacy of our "partnership" with Nintendo and using a lot of their images and concepts for our own fansite, ACC does not want to be personally responsible for a person's game or console. What we don't want is a massive amount of people taking this approach with Wiimmfi, being dissatisfied, and turning the blame around on us because they learned about Wiimmfi and received instructions via our website.

What people do with their game and console is their own discretion, yes. However besides the legal issues in general, a majority of users are underage minors and children. A dissatisfaction or unforeseen consequence leads to the dissatisfaction of the parent, and we all know there is no fury like the wrath of a parent. That would ruin the family friendly, clean reputation of our website and just lead to a spiral of drama.

As unfortunate as it is, I don't see the discussion of Wiimmfi being condoned on ACC. =( To encourage Wiimmfi, it would be best for you to use other sites and not involve ACC.
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mtx
 
Name
Martin
ACCF Town
Last Active
7/15/2016 2:18pm
Is this website hosted by Nintendo? No. So why would we care if they dislike the idea that we find ways to play their game online as they promised us would be possible. We bought our games legit and we should still have all the access as they promised when we bought it. They closed it, not us. They should have this coming. And besides hacking your Wii isn't illegal, downloading games is for example.
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tennisfan21
 
Name
Alex
ACCF Town
Last Active
10:38am
Thank you for your input Liv. If Wiimmfi discussion is allowed, it would be each individual user's choice as to whether or not they want to connect to the service. Myself and others would be happy to provide assistance to anyone who needs it, but that aspect of the discussion can be left to PTs. As Jason mentioned a few posts back, there is a way to connect to Wiimmfi without hacking, so the rule you highlighted would not be violated, and there would also be no risk that people would be illegally downloading games on their own because they would not have the means to do so. As far as people blaming ACC if they don't like it or if something goes wrong, a disclaimer can be written up saying each person is responsible for their own console and ACC does not take any responsibility. Luckily, there is only minuscule risk when using Wiimmfi through hacks, and with the no hacking method, I can't think of anything that can go wrong. For the dissatisfaction aspect, I personally have not seen anyone who hasn't been fully satisfied with Wiimmfi. The usual reaction is being overjoyed that they are back online. The only thing that could happen is a player encounters someone who is not particularly friendly, but that can happen on any game and on any server. However, I have played ACCF with dozens of people on Wiimmfi and haven't found any rude or unfriendly people.

As I've said in previous posts and Liv also stated, we would like to see a mod's perspective on all of this.

Martin made an interesting point: When we all bought this game, Nintendo did promise online service right on the package.

Jason, I would be interested to hear more about the no hacking method to connect to Wiimmfi when you have a chance.

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ACWWFreakazoid
 
Name
David
ACNL Town
Last Active
2:18am
Since this needs a Mod perspective, I'll go ahead and address unofficial WiFi servers. Our stance is already that you're more than welcome to look to WiFi using them on the General WiFi Lobby as long as you simply mention which service and don't go into the how. That applies anywhere on ACC, even in PTs.
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tennisfan21
 
Name
Alex
ACCF Town
Last Active
10:38am
Yes, I understand that and have tried it, but to no avail. My suggestion is that the rules be modified so that we can delve into the how to get more players back online. Are you able to comment on the partnership with Nintendo and whether Wiimmfi discussion would affect it?
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ACWWFreakazoid
 
Name
David
ACNL Town
Last Active
2:18am
I'm not sure if it's as much a partnership as we avoid annoying them and they leave us alone. That way we can continue running and we don't alienate Nintendo, which leaves the door open for a closer relationship with Nintendo should the opportunity arise one day.
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tennisfan21
 
Name
Alex
ACCF Town
Last Active
10:38am
Ok, thank you for clarifying. Based on my research, Wiimmfi is completely legal, and accessing it with the method that doesn't involve hacking means that Nintendo's 'terms of use' for the Wii aren't violated, so Nintendo isn't alienated by its use. Do you know if my suggestion will be brought up in future staff discussions?
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Dilpyckle
 
Last Active
3/7 3:40pm
Freakie, if I get tennisfan21 to link me to her twitter or some other way to contact to tell me how to do wiimmfi the legal way, would that be breaking any rules here? Cuz this legal way is interesting me.
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ACWWFreakazoid
 
Name
David
ACNL Town
Last Active
2:18am
"Ok, thank you for clarifying. Based on my research, Wiimmfi is completely legal, and accessing it with the method that doesn't involve hacking means that Nintendo's 'terms of use' for the Wii aren't violated, so Nintendo isn't alienated by its use. Do you know if my suggestion will be brought up in future staff discussions?"
Even if it isn't technically illegal, that doesn't mean Nintendo would like in depth discussions on the topic. The exploit technique also falls into murky water in that regard. I can certainly bring this up with the other Modmins, but I rather doubt we'll come to any different conclusions than we already have.

"Freakie, if I get tennisfan21 to link me to her twitter or some other way to contact to tell me how to do wiimmfi the legal way, would that be breaking any rules here? Cuz this legal way is interesting me."
Linking somewhere that explains how to accomplish this would be considered discussing it on ACC, but in terms of off-ACC forms of communication we have no control there. ACC's rules apply only to ACC.
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tennisfan21
 
Name
Alex
ACCF Town
Last Active
10:38am
Thanks for bringing this up with the other modmins. I'll be interested in hearing what they have to say.

Dylan, if you're really interested, send me a PT and I'll link you to another means of contact.
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Site Suggestions Board » Topic: Discussion of Wiimmfi for City Folk

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