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Topic: Demon's Souls/Dark Souls/Bloodborne

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Jenguin
 
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Jason
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12/5/2020 12:17pm
I looked around the forums here and didn't see anything Dark Souls related, surprisingly.

Just wanted to make a thread for general Dark Souls discussion, and wanted to know if anyone was just as hyped as I am for DSIII.
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MarauderShields
 
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David
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yeyeyeyeah

So pumped for DS3.
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IVOblivion
 
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7/16/2016 7:25pm
Wasn't huge on the first Dark Souls, other than the large and connected world (although, while I appreciated the connected world, it also felt sloppily connected and only threaded together), I feel it didn't do anything to set itself apart or improve upon Demon's Souls. Plus with a general complaint for the series, the enemy placement feels lazy and far too much like beginner's traps, yet somehow feeling far too predictable because that's pretty much how they keep throwing enemies at you.

Quite hated Dark Souls II, pretty much took everything from Dark Souls and then spit on it, although it did introduce some things I did like, like the nice and homely hub, Majula, Lifegems (although the amount you could hold could have been far more limited, I liked them as a way to top off your health after fights to save your Estus for larger encounters). Of course, the amount of garbage that actually fills this game, like the insane tracking on EVERY enemy, god-awful durability of items, lackluster and boring enemy and boss design, disjointed an clumsy world structure (because I can go from forest to poison swamp to...volcano?), and Soul Memory system really put me in a mood against the series as a whole. And whoever thought the Gray Phantom system was a good idea can go dunk their head in a toilet.

So, pretty must set me up to just completely hate the series...But then I played Bloodborne. Which is amazing. And seeing as Dark Souls III is taking a lot from Bloodborne, I'm actually looking forward to it quite a bit. It does seem to be treading a lot of water Dark Souls already did, but if From could just actually put a layer of polish on their games like they seem to be doing with Dark Souls III, I will gladly play it, especially if they can learn from Bloodborne.

Probably still gonna have to fight the camera and lock-on, seeing as after four games, they still somehow can't get that right, and the forced PvP that'll forever be flawed thanks to latency issues (but hey, Bloodborne at least let you almost avoid it wholly or stop it, so here's hoping that sticks!).

Speaking of Bloodborne, I'm gonna assume we'll be including Demon's Souls and Bloodborne into these conversations.
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Jenguin
 
Name
Jason
ACGC Town
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12/5/2020 12:17pm
I feel the same with you on Souls One, was never a big fan because it did seem too unfair at times, with cheap enemy placement and traps being too frequent. Also was way too rage inducing for me at the time haha.

Souls II I actually liked quite a bit, even though I know others have their strict opinions on it. I'm aware of everything the game does wrong, and the enemy tracking was extremely noticeable and annoying. BUT. For some reason it was the game I enjoyed better than the first.

Bloodborne wasn't a game I could get into, because I unfortunately don't own a PS4. With that said though, I love what I've played. It's comfortably challenging and it seems like a very new approach to the formula they've created. The darker, more grim tone of the game also helps drive home what I like about it so much.

And including Bloodborne and Demon Souls is completely fine, it only makes sense.
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IVOblivion
 
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7/16/2016 7:25pm
I wouldn't say enemy placement in Souls games is cheap. Just...Too much of the norm. Like, pulling the "Oh look, an enemy/item out in the open, but hey, there's a enemy tucked around to the side! We're being sooooo super clever!!" over and over again tends to make it hardly effective.

I remember the first instance in Dark Souls II that tried that on me, with one of those fat ogre things near that coffin that changes your gender. I called that before I even walked into the area, and assumed the game's design was solely based on the idea of thinking I was an idiot.

I was right for the most part.

Bloodborne does this still, but largely stays away from it too. The game seldom does it, and usually when it does, its made just obvious enough to let you know that its gonna happen, or make it a situation that adds a fear factor rather than an attempt to just outright kill you (a la the certain giant fishmen in a certain fishing town). Plus the peeps of Yharnam are pretty chatty, so that can usually be a good tell too.

But seeing as you haven't finished Bloodborne, I'll largely attempt to avoid spoilers, or appropriately spoiler tag it (as I've already done). I would definitely recommend you try and play through it entirely if you get the chance. It still has some things that irk me, but I would definitely consider it to be the best of what From has to offer with these games by a longshot.
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MarauderShields
 
Name
David
ACNL Town
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3/23/2019 11:37am
Bloodborne is my least favorite of the Souls games. I don't like the setting and I much prefer the sword and shield style of DS than trick weapons and guns. Ludwig's Holy Blade is the only reason I was able to get through the game.

"Quite hated Dark Souls II"
you and everyone else in the world lol. I thought DS2 was completely fine but hating it seems to be the norm.
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IVOblivion
 
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7/16/2016 7:25pm
"you and everyone else in the world lol. I thought DS2 was completely fine but hating it seems to be the norm. "
Well that's because its not a very good game now, is it? :I

But seriously, there is a bit of envy for me seeing people who do enjoy it. Like I mentioned, there is a bit I did actually enjoy from the game, and I do get the itch to play it now and again, but the flaws were just too apparent for me to forgive any of them, and reminding myself of them usually burns out that itch.
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MarauderShields
 
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David
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3/23/2019 11:37am
That's too bad, because aside from the tracking, I found it to be a very enjoyable game.
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IVOblivion
 
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7/16/2016 7:25pm
I should really freshen up on my Dark Souls tactics, though, so maybe I'll just goof off in it for a bit. Bloodborne has been eating up most of my time as of late, through I can comfortably say that I've complete it for now. With Dark Souls III just a few days away, I don't want to be too used to Bloodborne's mechanics, or it'll be quite a jarring experience.

I do still have one continuous playthrough of Bloodborne left to go for now, though. Just need to get my brother to continue with it, though granted just starting the Old Hunters content, we aren't too far from the end.
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MarauderShields
 
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David
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3/23/2019 11:37am
I still have to get TOH but I can't really justify spending $20 on DLC. DS3 also has a season pass for like $25 I think.
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IVOblivion
 
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7/16/2016 7:25pm
Oh, about the tracking thing too, let's be honest here, the first Dark Souls was pretty bad about it too, so really I shouldn't just be calling Dark Souls II out for it, just calling it out for being far worse. At least make them turn at the hips or something rather than magically gliding around to face you. Even Bloodborne isn't save from this issue, though granted I believe its limited to only a couple of bosses, or just the faster pace method of combat just makes me not notice it (although I believe there are a few examples of what I just mentioned too, turning at the hips and all that, at least with some of the giant mooks).

I can't even remember how Demon's Souls went about it, but I do remember some tracky arrows.

At least in what I've seen in Dark Souls III footage, its either been greatly reduced or non-existent. Heck, I saw an enemy shoot an arrow, and it flew straight the whole way!

On the topic of Old Hunters, I would definitely say that $20 was a pretty steep price, but I found it well worth it, but I suppose it helps a lot that I really really enjoyed the base game. Plus, the first boss of Old Hunters is something I can easily consider my favorite boss of all time.

Also, what was the first Dark Souls' DLC priced at? I know it was sold separately at one point, but I only know Dark Souls as the Prepare to Die Edition on PC (unfortunately).
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MarauderShields
 
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David
ACNL Town
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3/23/2019 11:37am
I'm sure it's a problem throughout the whole series. Gotta take advantage of those i-frames bro.

I've heard it's a really solid DLC but I'm still waiting for it to go on sale lol. I believe Artorias of the Abyss was (still is) $15.  edit: looks like it's $10 on PS3, but 15 on 360
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IVOblivion
 
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7/16/2016 7:25pm
Taking advantage of I-frames is something I've definitely gotten more used to with Bloodborne (seeing as its pretty much the name of the game), but I would often just rely on blocking in Souls games, seeing as it often just interrupts an enemy's attack and leaves them open anyways, excluding most bosses of course.
Of course, there's the option of parrying and riposting, which I'm still trying to get better at actually doing, at least outside of when doing such requires you to shoot them in the face real quick with a Blunderbuss.

But really, if From really can't be okay with an enemy not being able to attack you 100% of the time, even so much to have awkward and unnatural (or even the absence of) animations so they can hit you, then that just feels really lazy. Of course, I'm no expert when it comes to making games, so really all I can do is call and question.
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MarauderShields
 
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David
ACNL Town
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3/23/2019 11:37am
Yeah, when I played through DS1 I used my shield constantly. By the time I played DS2 I was two handing my weapon and rarely ever bringing out the shield. Bloodborne will really throw you into practicing dodging if you don't have much experience with it beforehand. But once you get that down, enemies become really trivial. Personally I don't see much use for parrying outside of PVP, at least for me, it can do some major damage but it's really hard for me to pull off.

Either way, the tracking doesn't really ruin the experience for me.
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IVOblivion
 
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7/16/2016 7:25pm
Dark Souls II is really the only game that it ruined the experience for me. Was able to just grit my teeth and bear it with Dark Souls, at least. And of course, I have no recollection of the case in Demon's Souls. I need to play that again, I think.



"Personally I don't see much use for parrying outside of PVP, at least for me, it can do some major damage but it's really hard for me to pull off."
Parrying is really just a personal challenge for me at this point. Its always been part of the game I've never paid attention to and only seen other players do, so I'm actually curious about taking advantage of it.

As for PvP, for Souls games at least in my experience, the metagame is exploiting latency for backstabs. Something that makes me sooooo fond of PvP. Granted, its rare that I actually want to involve myself in PvP, at least outside of New Game+ onward in Bloodborne, due to latency issues.

So yeah, never found parrying useful there.
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IVOblivion
 
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7/16/2016 7:25pm
Well, today is the day!

I gotta wait until later in the day to get it, but I can hold on.
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MarauderShields
 
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David
ACNL Town
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3/23/2019 11:37am
Word, I have to work until 8 so I have to suffer through my friends who have been playing it on PC since last night while trying to avoid as many spoilers as possible.

I'm really excited to play it because this is really the first Souls game that I'll be going into completely blind. I know next to nothing about it and have really only seen the first reveal trailer. I played DS1 and Demon's so late that I knew a lot about them already, and I saw full LPs of both DS2 and BB before I played them. So I'm prepared to die.

Hope I can find a halberd early on. Love those things.
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IVOblivion
 
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7/16/2016 7:25pm
I'm thinking I will go Pyromancer myself, as I never dabbled in magic/pyromancy in any game previously but Bloodborne. A part of me also wants to future proof for the possible (likely, really) appearance of the the Moonlight Greatsword, but I don't know how its gonna stat if it does show up. If it does exist in game, then I may just give myself the goal of obtaining it.

"I'm really excited to play it because this is really the first Souls game that I'll be going into completely blind."
I went into Dark Souls II blind and largely solo (thanks to the whole Soul Memory), but generally I like to know some stuff before I go into the game. My first playthrough with Demon's Souls was entirely with a friend, as was my Dark Souls playthrough. I saw an almost complete playthrough of Bloodborne first because of the whole not-having-a-PS4 issue that's been resolved, but my main Bloodborne playthrough was almost entirely on my own, which actually felt pretty awesome. After that, it was largely doing more playthroughs with friends/family, haha.

You can probably tell with that information that I prefer going through these games with a companion, but I'm gonna make it my goal to get as little help as possible with Dark Souls III, as well as grasping onto parrying. Also gonna try to just use my shield less and focus on evasion.

I've only seen the press release content of Dark Souls III, so while I've seen a bit, there's still a ton that I haven't seen.

"Hope I can find a halberd early on. Love those things."
The Halberd in Demon's Souls was my bread and butter. Loved that thing. I used the Mastodon Halberd a lot in Dark Souls II, but thanks to a glitch with it and on top of the whole durability tied to frame rate thing, that thing had the durability of a hollow chocolate bunny.
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IVOblivion
 
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7/16/2016 7:25pm
Well, got my copy! Just waiting on the patch to download. Gonna start playing immediately after I eat.
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MarauderShields
 
Name
David
ACNL Town
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3/23/2019 11:37am
I tried pyromancer in DS1 and it failed miserably. I didn't understand how anything worked and never made it past O&S. I only made it there by pure luck. So now I just stick with halberds because they look sick, have good range, and do good damage. My +10 Mastodon Halberd was my baby in DS2.

I think the games are much more satisfying when you play them alone. I've never summoned for any fights and it just feels great when you finally beat that boss you've been fighting for hours. I do love helping other people fight though. Sunbros forever.

Have fun dude. Can't wait to play in a little bit.
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IVOblivion
 
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7/16/2016 7:25pm
Alright so first impressions...

Tracking is to a minimal thankfully, but its still there, unfortunately. Already had one instance where I dodged behind an enemy with a sword, he did a thrust attack, and despite me being completely away from the sword, I still got hit. That specific attack could have just had a bad hitbox, but regardless, wasn't exactly happy about it.

But, pushing onward. They introduce an enemy that I feel is supposed to be a sort of tutorial for parrying, but the thing is so freaking aggressive that its hard to even think about what you want to even do before the guy is on top of you flailing his weapon around. I'm sure these guys would be cake if I had a grip on parrying but, uh, as previously stated, I don't.

As a Pyromancer, my fireballs are coming quite in handy. Great for picking off enemies in crowds to thin the masses, or get some damage off on a larger enemy before it closes in on me. Quite happy I started with this class, plus I'm already quite set up for using some healing spells, one of which give me four extra heals with full mana on top of my Estus.

The bosses so far (granted, I've fought two) have been pretty easy. Its still early game, but I'm getting more difficulty from those enemies I mentioned earlier than I did the bosses I've fought.

Some enemies get suuuuuuuuuuper combo happy, which feels kind of unfitting for the game. I've had one instance where an enemy attacked for nearly ten seconds straight without a break in his attack, though thankfully I was far enough away from him for it to not really matter. Still, the way some enemies move feels too similar to Bloodborne, and for a Dark Souls game, I don't think that's a good thing.

Backstabs seem crazy easy in this game as well. That's a good and bad thing of course. Just means the metagame of PvP is literally going to be exploiting latency for backstabs, rather than largely being exploiting latency for backstabs.

Largely enjoying the game, minus a few annoyances, though, so that's something new.
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MarauderShields
 
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David
ACNL Town
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3/23/2019 11:37am
Yeah, I've been hit with attacks that I had very clearly rolled past, so I'm seeing the tracking as well. Were the big black mutation things shown in any gameplay trailers? When I was fighting the first boss and he suddenly transformed or mutated or whatever, I was holy s. I was not expecting that at all. Really not digging how ordinary enemies transform without warning because they usually destroy me. Anyway, I'm only at the second bonfire in the High Wall so I haven't reached the second boss yet. I'm very rusty, but at least I got my halberd.

Overall, it's a Souls game. I'm happy to be back into the Souls lore and gameplay.
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IVOblivion
 
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7/16/2016 7:25pm
Yeah, those transforming black monsters can easily get the jump on you, but they seemed easy for me to pick out from a crowd (usually the only one standing, shirtless). Granted, that's not saying I didn't get jumped by one, but thankfully I've been able to kill them before the turn.

I've been favoring a Battle Axe I've obtained. Don't want to really stick with it, although its been doing me well. I've gotten some very interesting heavy weapons as well, but I need more Strength to use them.
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IVOblivion
 
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7/16/2016 7:25pm
So, more impressions! I don't know where you guys are at, so I'll keep it on the down-low.

So far, this game's difficulty seems really inconsistent. It relates to that enemy I figured was a tutorial for parrying as well. It seems like you can just be bouncing along, completely destroying anything and everything they throw at you, but then they throw a Bloodborne-esque enemy at you that can combo you for days, rip your guts out, and grab you and drag you across the ground until your face resembles steamed broccoli. And this isn't really in situations where, "Oh, there's a tough looking enemy ahead, clearly it doesn't want to go that way," I've come to places like that and just destroyed the existence that was that enemy. Its just a few enemies in the area, that are in stark contrast with every other enemy in the area. I'm starting to feel that this game takes from Bloodborne in some areas, forgetting its not Bloodborne.

Input queuing has always been a bit of a tedium in these sorts of From games, but its super noticeable with this game. If I so much as wiggle the button I just pressed again, it'll frantically perform the action again. I've gotten into the habit of completely removing my finger from any action button after I've hit it once, lest my character attack two or three more times after one intentional swing, or rolling immediately after a roll, completely killing my pace and often getting me hit as a result.

What's up with the hub being temporarily blocking you off from going outside once you load into the area? Something I've noticed is that once you load into the hub, all entrances and exits will be blocked off by fog for about a good minute or so. I, uh, really don't know why it does it.

Remember when I said I wanted to get the hang of parrying? Well, seems like a common trend that if your shield, no matter how small it is, blocks 100% physical, you don't get the parry as an option, you just get to use your weapon skill without having to two hand. I suppose its a trade-off, but does put a bit of a lock on me wanting to learn parrying because I do like to, you know, not take damage when I block.

I'm currently having to grind souls at the moment, because I've done a questline, which has resulted in me needing 41165 souls in order to do something. The enemies in my current location give me 80-150 souls, without any modifiers. Its come to a pretty dull portion of the game for me, so I may just ignore it for now and let myself get that much souls naturally.

Its funny too, pretty sure if I didn't do this questline, those 41165 souls would have been much more useful to use on myself.

EDIT: Oh good, the amount of Souls I need has gone from 41165 to 52152. Fourth area of the game, and I already need half 100k souls.
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Pikminsatellite
 
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Etilletas
ACNH Town
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5:35pm
How did you (or anyone else) handle the section with the Artillery guy and the trash mob outside the house, in the undead settlement area? It's the place where some guy constantly hits you with spears from some indeterminate location, and you have to make your way across to a house, only there are two goons that just stand right at the doorway of the house and makes it impossible to get through unless you lure an artillery blast onto yourself and get blasted through the door. I know Dark Souls has some BS enemy layouts but I think this has to be one of the the most irritating I've encountered.

Definitely agree that input queuing seems so much worse than it did before. I'll press the roll button, get bopped by an enemy anyway then the game will just randomly decide to do an involuntary roll afterwards and put me in a vulnerable position.
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Video Gaming & Consoles Board » Topic: Demon's Souls/Dark Souls/Bloodborne

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