Its only a 20% chance to pass it down, isn't it? I was under the impression that its just much easier to pass it down with a female (where its 80%? Of course, me guessing clearly shows I don't actually know ).

I thought it was just equal rates now, like egg moves, but either of us could be wrong.

Oh yeah, if you were wondering why I missed your trade invite earlier, I was in White 2, capturing some stuff to transfer over.

Got 30 Pokemon in Bank waiting to be transferred, and that'll set me over 600 Dexed Pokemon!
I'll update my list of what's left after I transfer them.

Kanto:
Clefairy, Clefable, Primape, Seel, Dewgong, Drowsee, Hypno, Kingler, Horsea, Seadra, Omastar, Kabutops

Johto:
Meganium, Typhlosion, Feraligatr, Xatu, Ampharos, Sunkern, Unown, Kingdra, Donphan, Stantler, Blissey

Hoenn:
Sceptile, Blaziken, Wrumple Lines excluding Beautifly, Swellow, Vigaroth, Slaking, Loudred, Exploud, Delcatty, Wailord, Camerupt, Baltoy, Claydol, Armaldo, Milotic, Casform, Chimecho, Walrein

Sinnoh:
Torterra, Kricketot, Kricketune, Luxio, Luxray, Rampardos, Bastiodon, Mothim, Gastrodon, Ambipom, Lopunny, Purugly, Skuntank, Toxicroak, Finneon, Lumineon, Dusknoir

Unova:
Serperior, Emboar, Samurott, Herdier, Unfezant, Zebstrika, Palpitoad, Krookodile, Carracosta, Acheops, Vanilish, Vanilluxe, Jellicent, Klink, Klang, Klinklang, Beeheeyem, Volcarona

I might use that Slurpuff build for Battle Maison. Would adamant or jolly be better for it?

I personally disagree with allowing legendaries even non uber ones.

Jirachi = Gg

But for Megas, I'm not sure yet.

And I have to re-do my mono team because I didn't know about IV's when I trained my mono-team.

Megas weren't proposed to be banned (unless they are indicated to be uber -- Kangaskhan, Lucario and Gengar are the only ones I believe that fall into that category).

Why do you think legendaries should be banned if I may ask?

" I might use that Slurpuff build for Battle Maison. Would adamant or jolly be better for it? "

Hm. Unburdend Doubles your Speed, while Belly Drum maxes the Attack. Tough choice, but with a base 80 Attack and base 72 Speed, I'd go with Jolly, personally.

Also, updated my list in my previous post. Got a lot out of the way in 5th Gen.

I'm fairly certain Mega Blaziken is uber as well.

Anyway, legendaries and why we should ban them? Easy, most are classified as ubers and it's so easy to wreck a team with them. Besides, I find it more fun to use Pokemon that aren't over-powered and require strategic use in order for it to flourish in battle.

Thanks Ivo. According to Bulbapedia Swirlix is a slot 2 Pokemon so I'll do some trades with people on NL to populate my list.

Hey, what do you know! The Flygon I put up on the GTS for a Vanillish was finally traded!

...Right after I transferred one from White 2! Awesome. Well, I got a free Lucky Egg from that Flygon, and this Vanillish has Pokerus, so no loss, really.

Legendaries also have some pretty OP Exclusive moves.

Also, if you guys don't like Mega Gengar, I will gladly switch and just use normal Gengar.

" I'm fairly certain Mega Blaziken is uber as well. "

Right you are, I almost forgot that it had a Mega based on the fact it was Uber in Gen V.

"Anyway, legendaries and why we should ban them? Easy, most are classified as ubers and it's so easy to wreck a team with them. Besides, I find it more fun to use Pokemon that aren't over-powered and require strategic use in order for it to flourish in battle. "

The keyword is "Most", those most are securely classified as uber and would be henceforth banned. There is a massive amount of data analysis from the simulators done on ubers, as well as community discussions (within Smogon, including any user signed up there) before proceeding to an interior voting phase. Banning all because "most" are uber does not make sense. Actually, I think more legendaries classify as non-uber than uber.

Regarding your latter point, that is the precise function of the classification of ubers -- to get rid of OP Pokémon for the "main" game. Not all legendaries are OP at all. Using, say, a Jirachi gives you no unfair advantages in an environment free of Ubers. It can be countered by OU Pokémon, just as most OU Pokémon can be countered pretty fairly by other OU Pokémon. Of course when it comes to intra-tier counters then things can get a bit more harier. I also fail to see how you can't use a legendary strategically.

I fail to see how Pokémon like Articuno, Entei or Moltres can inspire more fear in you than seeing a Klefki.

" Legendaries also have some pretty OP Exclusive moves."

Depends how you use the word "OP". OP in terms of the metagame? Or OP in comparison to other Pokémon's moves. If the latter, than I can agree with you but I don't think there are many OP exclusive moves used by non-ubers.


(Sorry if this seems like a brisk reply, I'm balancing ACC with doing Uni. coursework)

I've never had to go against a Moltres, Articuno or Entei yet but I think Klefki is more of a threat based off the moves it has at its disposal.

Funny how you mention Jirachi as well since that's my favourite legendary... I have a soft spot for cute Pokemon, sue me.

Articuno and Moltres as slaughtered by Stealth Rock almost right off the bat, so you won't be seeing them much. Entei I haven't faced in a while, I tend to see legendaries like Genesect (though now that's uber too I think, though I'm a bit iffy on Smogon's decision regarding it), Jirachi, Lati@s, Keldeo, Suicune and Celebi.

I like Jirachi, I think I have two different sets on my game, that I used to use back in D/P/Pt battling. One physically versed, the other specially versed.

Males pass down HAs with the same rate females do (breeding with Ditto of course; females also pass down HAs if bred with Ditto in this Gen)

As for the proposed clauses, well, here is my veredict on them.

Ban clause: Bans will be done, but not Smogon bans, a banlist shall be made specially for our League, taking into account what is and what isn't broken by inner concensus standards. My reasons are because some non-legendary Pokémon that may seem broken (Ubers) in Smogon standards may be not (cough Mega Gengar and Blaziken cough), whereas some legendaries that  aren't Ubers are more broken than some Ubers in fact (cough Jirachi and the Latis cough). Which is why if taken into account, a special banlist should be created.

Rotation clause: In relation to your suggestion Patrick, teams shall be able to rotate between Pokémon of your chosen type AS LONG AS the match is not an official League match, which means it is an independent battle between two mono trainers not related to your official League score. So if you wished to switch them before a match for your League battles, I am afraid that won't be allowed...

Raffy, Articuno and Moltres are clear examples of mediocre Pokémon, but unlickily for them (and for the ones that could have used them), they fall under the same category as prime annoyers and disruptors, like Jirachi. Of course they could get ucky and their awfulness could make them bypass the banlist so they make it to the usable list, but our intention so as to not seem unfair is to ban legends as a whole and not case-by-case. And let's get serious here, who on earth would use Moltres over Charizard, especially after Char got two Mega forms?

" Males pass down HAs with the same rate females do (breeding with Ditto of course; females also pass down HAs if bred with Ditto in this Gen)"

Oh dang, that's great news then. Thanks for letting me know about that, because I've been exclusively tracking down females specifically for passing down hidden abilities (although I should, so I can breed with a male in the same egg group but of a different species).

Does that mean if you don't breed with ditto the hidden ability is not passed down?

If it's Male, then yes. But if it's a Female, it can pass it on even though it's not a Ditto.

Just gonna correct a few minor things here.

"Ban clause: Bans will be done, but not Smogon bans, a banlist shall be made specially for our League, taking into account what is and what isn't broken by inner concensus standards. My reasons are because some non-legendary Pokémon that may seem broken (Ubers) in Smogon standards may be not (cough Mega Gengar and Blaziken cough), whereas some legendaries that  aren't Ubers are more broken than some Ubers in fact (cough Jirachi and the Latis cough). Which is why if taken into account, a special banlist should be created."

Blaziken (or at least mega) is definitely Uber regardless of what smogon thinks of it, so m'afraid I'll be disagreeing with that part. Personally I don't think Mega Gengar is that hard for anyone to deal with (aside from normal types obviously), even those that have a weakness to it, so I agree about not banning that unless everyone is seriously against it.

"Ban clause: Bans will be done, but not Smogon bans, a banlist shall be made specially for our League, taking into account what is and what isn't broken by inner concensus standards. My reasons are because some non-legendary Pokémon that may seem broken (Ubers) in Smogon standards may be not (cough Mega Gengar and Blaziken cough), whereas some legendaries that  aren't Ubers are more broken than some Ubers in fact (cough Jirachi and the Latis cough). Which is why if taken into account, a special banlist should be created."

Some solid counters to Latias:

- Tyranitar
- Special Walls, especially fairies.

Some solid counters to Latios:

- Tyranitar again
- Special walls, again, especially fairies.

Some solid counters to Jirachi:

- Heatran (albeit also a legendary, that is not uber)
- Steel walls like ferrothorn
- Water/Ground Pokémon that are defensive also ought to be able to counter Jirachi.

---

My opinion boils to that I think that making up your own list will be HEAVILY deluged in personal bias; I proposed the Smogon list because it has had tons of critical research applied to it. I concede that I may have a bias towards Smogon's tiering system, but I've personally found it makes the playing field a lot fairer.

" And let's get serious here, who on earth would use Moltres over Charizard, especially after Char got two Mega forms?"

I wouldn't use either actually, personally. But you're right Charizard has more versatility, imo, than Moltres. Which shows how not all legendaries are overpowered. However, legendaries like Heatran, Jirachi are as useful as any OU Pokémon.

I don't really use legendaries though purely because you're only guaranteed 3 perfect IVs and if you want more the chances are very remote.

"it easily wipes Mega Lucario down with a Flamethrower or Overheat, with normal Manectric's base peed at 105, or its massive 135 base Speed Mega'd. Infernape, Choice Scarfed Darmanitan, Arcanine, Ninetales, Krookodile"

No-one is going to switch in lucario against a pokemon that can one shot it, also worth noting if you switch in lucario and force a switch (as you usually do), this is commonly predicted and close combat will one shot ALL of those pokemon even without stealth rock.

Arcanine, Nintetales, krookodile and infernape all do not even outspeed mega lucario and are easily OHKO'd by close combat. I wouldn't call those pokemon reliable counters or even checks to M Lucario when they are all one shotted by him themselves and only 2 out of those 6 outspeed it.

96% voted mega lucario to be banned

imo Mega gengar is way OP. Shadow tag is just way too powerful an ability for standard games, any pokemon that can't beat gengar 1v1 is as good as dead, and that's a lot of pokemon considering base 170 special attack, a huge movepool, and base 130 speed. just think dugtrio made it to OU consistently the past few gens JUST because of arena trap which is much worse than shadow tag, and it has base 80 attack!!

--My 2 one p's.

Hidden abilities have 80% chance of being passed down from a female, and 60% from a male with ditto afaik

Now steel doesn't resist dark jirachi/lati twins/celebi are all easy pursuit bait

"imo Mega gengar is way OP. Shadow tag is just way too powerful an ability for standard games, any pokemon that can't beat gengar 1v1 is as good as dead, and that's a lot of pokemon considering base 170 special attack, a huge movepool, and base 130 speed. just think dugtrio made it to OU consistently the past few gens JUST because of arena trap which is much worse than shadow tag, and it has base 80 attack!!"

Not the one you were replying to, but, thanks for explaining that, I was wondering why it had been put into Ubers. I didn't know it had Shadow Tag as a Mega -- surprisingly I never have faced one, though I haven't battled all that much in the past months.

Seeing as there are so much people talking right now, does anyone have a FS with Kecleon?

I really want a Female HA Kecleon.

I have one but you know... walkthrough so I can't.

Well yeah, of course we still have  to settle the banlist my dear Laura , that shall be discussed. No Raffy, despite those being some counters (not as "solid" as you claim them to be, since Haxrachi can hax Heatran to death and Latis can get around fairies with Psyshock), they are not available for all teams because of the mono part.

As or the Jirachi and other non-Uber legends clause: Sure, Heatran for you, since you run Fire, but what about Rock? What about Water?. That's really unfair IMO. The only Ghost legends are Giratina and Ghost Arceus, and they are Uber, so I can't run them. And then by allowing dirty nuisances like the Wish Maker (more like Hax Maker), you're overcentralizing the teams, forcing them to run specifical counters to broken non-Uber mons just so they get a chance. pretty silly and unfair right? The objective of this League is to make it fun, not to see who can troll and annoy their opponent more.

Zave, I haz Kecleon FS, do you want one?